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MMXN
Aug 23, 2006 22:34:59 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Aug 23, 2006 22:34:59 GMT -5
What's a couple of gaping flesh wounds here and there >_>
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MMXN
Aug 24, 2006 5:37:44 GMT -5
Post by WatcherCCG on Aug 24, 2006 5:37:44 GMT -5
Just turn the boss speed down, Wade, or else this forum is liable to revolt on you. Admit it, the bosses are too fast for the normal gamer to handle.
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MMXN
Aug 24, 2006 7:48:26 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Aug 24, 2006 7:48:26 GMT -5
There'll be no speed adjustment aside the previously mention FPS reduction. It's tough love for ya'll I'm afraid.
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MMXN
Aug 24, 2006 12:00:17 GMT -5
Post by WatcherCCG on Aug 24, 2006 12:00:17 GMT -5
That's what I was refering to, really. Good, then. Once you turn things down, I'll see what I think about it, 'kay?
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MMXN
Aug 27, 2006 2:16:49 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Aug 27, 2006 2:16:49 GMT -5
To change subject back to the original one. I did finish playtesting it on a MAC OS 10.4 and it didn't give me zee codes this time (Curse apple and their stupid relentless OS updates). So in future versions guess I'zza just haveta make things more save file oriented and remove the OS restriction for MAC's
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MMXN
Sept 2, 2006 12:05:57 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Sept 2, 2006 12:05:57 GMT -5
I am intrigued. I would like to be able to test my skills against these "too fast" bosses, though I don't have a mac.
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MMXN
Oct 22, 2006 16:39:14 GMT -5
Post by Gabe on Oct 22, 2006 16:39:14 GMT -5
Hey, uh, just posting here to see how the Hidden Bosses are coming along. I tried to read as much as I could on this topic, but today is the first day I've checked the forums. Anyway, I was just wandering if the Hidden Bosses were even close to being completed since I beat the game more than a year ago and would really like to try my hand at more powerful opponents (the speed thing doesn't really matter to me, it's never been a problem).
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MMXN
Oct 24, 2006 22:41:09 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Oct 24, 2006 22:41:09 GMT -5
Hidden bosses have been edited to be added into the Remix version since it's engine's stronger.
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zekk
CITIZEN
Posts: 24
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MMXN
Feb 10, 2007 13:06:23 GMT -5
Post by zekk on Feb 10, 2007 13:06:23 GMT -5
The game suddenly got faster when I got to the metal beach stage. And, where did the extra 2 characters go, or are they just not appearing?
Is there even any point of posting here?
Didn't notice the remix thing. ^_^;
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MMXN
Feb 10, 2007 23:57:54 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Feb 10, 2007 23:57:54 GMT -5
Plenty of point of posting, though I admit I'm far from the best person in the world at updating things.
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MMXN
Feb 11, 2007 14:59:01 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 11, 2007 14:59:01 GMT -5
The thing with the speed was already known. Apparently, thanks to the weird way this thing works code near the front works faster than the back, so levels programmed earlier go faster than those made later. So the jungle and metal beach ran significantly faster than anything else and the fortress levels will run a bit slower (though it can be tricky to spot the difference). I believe he intentionally stuck something in to slow the jungle (being the very first stage) down to normal speed, but did nothing similar to metal beach.
edit: What the heck? Going back a few pages I just noticed the remix... how did I not notice that before? Whatever, after playing the remix for two levels I found that it is mostly good and runs much faster, but there's still of course problems. In the interest of maybe getting them ironed out easier when you turn your attention back to this: Powerups falling on right-moving conveyors don't move. Powerups falling on left-moving conveyors do. Flying enemies now drop falling powerups; if memory serves before flying enemies dropped floating powerups and only ground-based enemies dropped falling ones. No heart items, though I assume that's just not redone yet. In that big scene in the airport with the whole mess of moving platforms with those armored enemies sitting on them, the one closest to the left side of the screen is invisible. It is solid, as I accidentally fell on it, but it's invisible. A few scenes later, that big moving platform appears about half a tile higher than it actually is. Harbor serpent's left-moving shots point right, his right moving shots are just circles and the shots he drops when he flies across the screen are the same as his left-moving shots. I'm not sure there's a single move of Ram Knight's that isn't sprited wrong at least twice. Tsunami dissappears during some of his attacks, but only for a frame or two. Play through fortress 3 and you'll be hard pressed NOT to notice the problems. Bonus points if you can still beat it without plague! Rangda Bangda's nose is invisible, meaning one of his attacks is too (and has no visual cue at all). Surprisingly, while it increases the difficulty level 85000% it only manages to increase how annoying he is 40% (it's an uphill battle trying to make that fight less fun). In the rematch stage (accessed from the level select): the switch button didn't work with Sic, then pressing pause made me return to start, then entering a teleporter crashed it. Whether triggering some of those incited the others or not I'm not gonna bother checking. Pause restarts the stage half the time in boss fights too (and somehow EVERY time I try to use a health item). In the final bosses a lot of my shots simply don't appear for no reason (and they aren't invisible). This includes charged shots and X's boss weapons Since you uncapped the number of shots on screen (previously 3) the ranged characters are extremely overpowered. Even if performance can handle it, you'll probably have to keep that cap for balance purposes. KZ's gun isn't firing reliably--tapping or holding/releasing the attack button don't always result in shots on screen. It's tough to tell if KZ is dashing because unlike every other character, she does not lean forward and thus still looks normal until the trail appears. In fortress level 4 the enemies in the third locked room no longer move while offscreen. Which means that not only will they no longer come to you, but you can easily beat the room by camping--only the enemies spawning from the one preset spawn point onscreen move, so it's easy to find a spot to kill them as soon as they appear repeatedly (especially for plague). The lock on locked rooms no longer disappears once you've killed enough enemies to go on. Fusion Drake is invincible. You forgot to make his weak point a weak point. No cutscene music.
Now for the blatant personal opinion section: The new health bars are prettier, but they're harder to read. There's not as much contrast between the colors as there was before--they're all more subdued and harder to tell apart. Do the old colors look bad encased in the new outline?
You can't even hear the new musics for Delia's, Plague's and S/S's bonus levels over the carnage. Better pick something louder. Zero's is spot on though. I "don't like" the new fortress music, but I'm guessing that's just my knee jerk reaction of initially not liking any new song on a level I already played if the old music was at least half-decent. It should be fine, though once again volume may be an issue.
You know what would make those jetcycle levels more fun? If you tripled the damage the player takes from enemies (you have to try to get hit enough to die on hard mode), uncapped the shots on screen (since apparently that's no longer a performance issue) and replaced the timer with a distance meter and a time limit (a flat countdown timer doesn't make sense given turbos, and both of those levels were on a time limit from a plot perspective) such that you have to turbo for at least something like a quarter or a third of the level to make it. No idea how to save the flying levels from being too easy.
As long as you're changing/adding things, can I petition you to either change or get rid of Rangda Bangda? It is pathetically easy (every attack is dodged either by standing still in the middle or dashing to the side--the whole fight can go by without using the jump button) yet takes forever, is too luck based (due to having a die rolled for whether he makes an attack or lets you hit him) and isn't fun, and I don't think it belongs in such a quality game. Could you, like, change his weak point to his nose or something and then increase the rate of attacks to compensate (or make him summon in flying enemies to compensate)?
One more thing. This one runs much faster than before, making it harder and at least for me more fun. But I'm left wondering just what speed the game was intended to run at. After all, I thought before I was pretty awesome to beat Vile on HoE and now I can't get close on hard and am getting a new dose of the "evil programmer" everyone talks about. But I have no way of knowing if I was doing well before or now due to being good or just the game running slow (a sad consequence of not regulating your game's speed). For all I know I'm still not seeing things at full speed. Is there any way you can give us an idea of exactly how fast the game is supposed to be running?
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MMXN
Feb 15, 2007 1:43:20 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Feb 15, 2007 1:43:20 GMT -5
Dang nab critics >_<;;
lol
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MMXN
Feb 15, 2007 18:14:15 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 15, 2007 18:14:15 GMT -5
Better here than on Newgrounds. Seriously, though, can you ditch the annoying face boss?
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Pineappler
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Ultrasound Graphics Synthesis
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Posts: 2,286
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MMXN
Feb 16, 2007 15:29:03 GMT -5
Post by Pineappler on Feb 16, 2007 15:29:03 GMT -5
Well, I decided that I had time to give it my own test run, the remix. Unfortunately, I'm apparently an outcast when it comes to opinion of difficulty, so I can't argue that the game is fine at the speed for the most part. Slowing it down to 40FPS won't hurt, though.
To answer a question on the previous page for weapons... For anywhere projectiles, X has a straight, a slightly down straight, and a straight that bounces. For ground-only projectiles, X has a close-in wave, a horizontal line, and a vertical pillar. For close range attacks, X has a circular barrier and a melee attack best with dashing.
Shine Mantis gives me the impression of two things: jumping and slashing. In all respects, lots of arcing or crescent-like attacks. I didn't think immediately of Flash or Bright Man, my instincts went to Optic Sunflower and similar light offense. They're very radial. Combined with mantis imagery (yay Mantids!), I come to think of things which come from the sky and fall. Because downward arcs are easier to drop and catch your prey that way, than, say, swinging upwards. So, one idea I had thought of included the unceremonious dropping of some brilliant ray-like projectile from the sky towards the area in front of X. The attack doesn't originate from X, but from above and in front of him, I would guess. Graphically I imagine like a light blast or shining comet. Another idea was simply something else anti-air, by means of an arc shot. Fires something up that then drops. Because outside of Geyser Blast, which is land-locked, there's not much for anti-air. And admittedly, that's a facet of these games (I remember rather preciously the cries of "Why can't I shoot up!?" from a recent discussion of a Rockman-style parody I and many others played), but it wouldn't hurt to have another option. The arc would be best if it didn't encroach on Geyser Blast, so it shouldn't be able to attack straight up. As far as appearance, I imagined like a streaming blast that curves, but because I know we don't want to go too severe on graphics, I imagine something probably like a spinning light crescent would be more imaginable.
For Zero, on the same vein, I would suggest an aerial attack. Something that he can use with the special button in the air, which landlocks his execution of Sword Barrier (though actually it's been a while and I think it was landlocked anyway). Something like a quick slash, something circular like, or something that just obliterates, maybe a crescent-path in the forward-like direction.
The other boss being an unknown I, too, cannot suggest much but what I can suggest is a couple ideas. Maybe an attack that fires multiple projectiles in a spread forwards at once?
While I'm at it I'll voice another suggestion, one that's been on my mind. 2 Drakes give Standing +1. Gorillon gives Standing +1. Tsunami Drake gives Shot Cutter. Gorillon has projectiles that can be cut down. Tsunami Drake doesn't. It seems a bit thematic to swap those two for Zero. Though... this sounds familiar and I can't remember if I already voiced this concern.
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MMXN
Feb 16, 2007 23:26:50 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 16, 2007 23:26:50 GMT -5
If gorillon gave out shot cutter, you couldn't use it against him, and that was one of the things that makes gorillon a melee-oriented boss. That said, it would make sense to shuffle things so all three drakes had standing +1.
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MMXN
Feb 17, 2007 2:18:19 GMT -5
Post by Wade Monroe / MaelstormM on Feb 17, 2007 2:18:19 GMT -5
Better here than on Newgrounds. Seriously, though, can you ditch the annoying face boss? Why's it gotta be ditch instead of rework? I got a healthy set of new skillzilz from doing RN now, I'm sure I can add a bit more thrill to the ol' girl. Rangda Bangda gets no love. It's hard to describe how fast it's supposed to run. Maybe I can find some screen capture software and record me playing the SWF directly. Guess the best example I could thiink of is Sonic the Hedgehog, only without having the stage guide your actions (ei: well placed springboards and loopdeloops). Gonna be a fair amount of weapon changes (tweaks prolly describes it better) given the more effective coding. Zero will get some totally new moves as will Delia to make'm a bit different. But only time will tell. All of it can be changed if it doesn't work to well or is out of place like Jazz's happy rings in RN.
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MMXN
Feb 17, 2007 12:25:58 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 17, 2007 12:25:58 GMT -5
How about (assuming that you yourself are able to play it at the "correct" speed) timing the intro for one of the later bosses (probably vile, since the exact moment his ends is clear due to the fact that he changes from a floating stance to a standing one) with a stopwatch so we can compare how fast ours is going?
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 5:58:54 GMT -5
Post by Nocturn on Feb 20, 2007 5:58:54 GMT -5
Yoohoo, I haven't really tried the remix demo, but I have one itsy small issue with the current version, namely with Delia's final boss. I find her hitbox to be utterly unfair. Now there's nothing wrong with a free-floating hitbox per sé, but it disappears like every three seconds, and then appears in the middle of lots of fire burts and shots and these little spinny thingies, and when they're finally gone and you want to attack it, it disappears again, and you have no clue where it is, and when you FINALLY found it, it disappears again! This is already a pain in the Hard version, and I dread what this is going to be like in the Beserk version. Now I know you're working on the remix version, so there's no use in changing the programming of this boss in the current version, but could you make her hitbox move around instead of teleporting without warning in the remix version? Or maybe let it have some after-image indicating where it teleported to if you insist on being The Evil Programmer?
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Pineappler
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Ultrasound Graphics Synthesis
The Little Dowser General
Posts: 2,286
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 9:15:40 GMT -5
Post by Pineappler on Feb 20, 2007 9:15:40 GMT -5
The problem is that the hitbox teleports to anywhere on the screen. Which seems to include those nice spots that you cannot reach because the boss occupies half the arena. Leaving after-images doesn't actually solve much because if it moves out of your range, either by being too high or by going past your area, then all you know is that you can't strike it anyway. Admittedly, if it did move, you'd get a larger opportunity to strike the hitbox as it's moving, if it and its destination are low enough. Otherwise, such a change wouldn't amount to much less pain, and is one of those features that work in the game more of a 'why not?' factor than helping entirely much in the gameplay department in either direction. Since it stands still at each spot, unlike Citadel, it would probably have a nice zipping speed if it were to move, and that'd be more recommendable anyway because if it were constantly moving, the limitted arena space the characters have makes it even more a pain because you only ever can strike about 1/6 of the full area. So for it to hover in place helps the player more in that respect. That's what I think, at any rate.
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 16:06:52 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 20, 2007 16:06:52 GMT -5
Sure, Delia's boss' hitbox is a bit jumpy, but the counterweight is that her boss has the least nasty attacks of any final boss. Heck, you can actually get hit by a bit of the crusher attacks while fleeing and not only survive but still have a fair chance of winning (assuming you could win in the first place). If your pinky toe gets hit by Vile's laser you lose (not to mention all the other crap he throws at you with next to no warning), two of Plague's boss' three attacks may instakill you if you were flying (and they're a monster to dodge) and do massive damage, and the sic/sin "boss" fills the screen with unscripted attacks, heals itself and has two crusher attacks which also make it invincible (kind of). There's no attack that Delia's boss uses which you can't see coming at least two seconds in advance and which you can't guide where you want it (except the crusher for the second one). Play defensively, stay near the top of the wall until you see either the hitbox or that attack with the gas bomb things, deflect the purple shots and don't chase the hitbox unless you can reach it quick, and you'll last long enough. I think she's got the easiest boss.
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Pineappler
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Ultrasound Graphics Synthesis
The Little Dowser General
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 20:05:18 GMT -5
Post by Pineappler on Feb 20, 2007 20:05:18 GMT -5
I'll agree that it's the easiest boss of them. Probably because Delia and Plague's bosses didn't need me to use a life on Berserk, but on HoE Delia took quite a few tries to take out Plague's boss, so I'd rank the latter more difficult as a result. Though, maybe my memory's fuzzy. I coulda swore you couldn't climb that wall against Delia's.
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 20:56:25 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 20, 2007 20:56:25 GMT -5
Umm, it would be physically impossible to win Delia's boss fight without climbing the wall, thanks to the breath attack. Even aside from that, any time it tried to do the full 3 shots with the gas bomb attack you'd die and you'd have almost no chances to hurt it. The entire fight is about climbing that wall, pretty much.
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Pineappler
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 21:20:38 GMT -5
Post by Pineappler on Feb 20, 2007 21:20:38 GMT -5
Not physically impossible. Seeing as I've done it on every difficulty but the easiest.Even with 3 full shots of the gas bomb. All you need is the reflex and the knowledge of how to lead shots and how to find openings.
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 22:16:08 GMT -5
Post by brickman on Feb 20, 2007 22:16:08 GMT -5
Not physically impossible. Seeing as I've done it on every difficulty but the easiest.Even with 3 full shots of the gas bomb. All you need is the reflex and the knowledge of how to lead shots and how to find openings. And the breath attack?
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Pineappler
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MMXN
Feb 20, 2007 22:51:47 GMT -5
Post by Pineappler on Feb 20, 2007 22:51:47 GMT -5
Find openings. It doesn't strike all of the ground. It does hurt if you don't stand right, though. But even in the first sight of the boss charging, how to dodge it becomes fairly obvious.
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